new Member Considering Disc Replacement
 

Hello All,

I am a 44 year old male been suffering from DDD for about 13 years now. Used to be an very active sports person, playing racket sports daily, gym, swimming, runner, golf, hockey and the list goes on.

13 years ago I started to get tightened back after sports and would need to walk and stretch the next day. Saw many doctors in Canada at the time all telling me my discs were failing and to do stuff like physio, Chiropractic and so forth.

I have spent years strengthening the core, trying to keep off it and eventually gave up most sports except controlled movements like some weightlighting(nothing involving back or legs to much so stuff like deadlifts etc are not even considered), swimming and walking.

It has got worse every year and this year I really have had about about enough. Things I can't do anymore.

1. Can't sit, I never sit anymore unless I have too, have good days and bad days but usually can't sit more then 20 minutes to 2 hours, doing so causes my lower back to get super tight and I get a lumbar lateral shift where my body is shifted to the side, to remove it I have to walk and swim to straighten back out, it can be painful a lot while other times just a little painful, one thing for certain is daily I have some pain all the time. Sitting on the toilet is the worse, I actually got to sit on an angle

2. I can't do anything that involves to much twisting, bending down, putting on shows and socks are brutal, have to get on the floor to do it, often that motion of bringing my feet towards me can blow my back instantly, that is why all sports are out now, same problems as above
3. I sleep on the floor now for the last two years, I have to sleep on side or my back, stomach is not an option. I can't sleep on a mattress anymore, even the hard ones are still not hard enough to not wake up with the pain and the lateral lumbar shift
4. I feel like I am going to snap in two almost all day, going to the movies, dinner, gettign on airplanes all that stuff so difficult

It is very frustrating for me as I am very sports minded, in pretty good shape considering my disabilities and am depressed about it a lot.

I have seen many specialists and they all say I am lucky and unlucky. Unlucky to have such crappy discs at my age but also lucky the discs presently are not pressing into my nerves etc. I have issues with L4-5 L5-S1 and L3-4 everything else is in good shape. Doctors I have talked to are mostly fusion doctors and have all told me to keep on doing what I am doing, stretching, walking, swimming being careful and in 10 years when my discs are completely terrible or if I wake up one day screaming in pain then I will be a fusion candidate, but they all tell me it is coming.

I am the poster boy for trying to take care of my back but every year it gets worse and I am tired of living like this. I decided to check out Artifical Disc Replacment as most of the fusion doctors mention it as an option but tell me not such a great idea, well I decided to do my own research and though it is somewhat scary it seems like a possible solution for me.

I been in touch with Dr Clavel in Spain, he thinks I am a great candidate for three level ADR and I am seriously considering it. I plan to get the melissa test in August to check for metal allegeries and if all checks out I am seriously considering going under the knife and getting these replacements.

I hope this forum can offer me advice and help connect me with those that might have experience in ADR and how it worked out for them. I am kind of at the point of how can the surgery be worse then I am now, perhaps it would be worse, perhaps it will be the best decision I ever made.

Thanks all for those that read my story, I could talk about it for hours but this is the shorten version

My whole life revolves around my back I have to walk 60 minutes once or twice a day and swim, every single day, that keeps me somewhat straight and less pain, brings me to about 50% of my back. Even if I miss just one day, like a day where I want to be lazy and not exercise my back quickly falls apart which pain, tightness and shifts..

Welcome!
 

Hi Dorian and welcome to the forums,

Reading your story is tough. What you are living is no life and I know it, since I was in your position a year ago. I had the two lowest discs out and could not sit or do most activities. You think about your back all the time, so it is very difficult to enjoy life.

I took the leap of faith and went for ADR surgery. At the moment of writing this, it feels like the best decision of my life. Can't know the future, but hoping for the best! I very rarely think about my back and feel like I am free to do almost anything. I hope you could have a similar outcome.

By the way, you are not at all young for this problem. I am in my 20's and so are many on this forum that had ADR. It seems that it can hit people at almost any age (depending on genetics and lifestyle).

Thanks Blizzaga, which discs did you get replaced? and where did you get it done may I ask? I agree it is a total let down to have this life, right now I plan to get the Melissa test when I go back to Canada (living abroad at the moment) and from there seriously considering getting the procedure done, luckily this week so far has been a rare good week for me, but I know it wont last, it never does:)

I got two levels done with Activ-L (see my signature). You can read my story in the surgical outcome section. It was a great success.

Hi again,
I am back, still wondering what I should do with my life.

I blew my back again the other day really bad which always makes me revisit my getting surgery. Contacted Dr Clavel said I was really close to getting this done. Then started reading about Dr Desai and the ESP disc and find him quite interesting as well.

I have this ongoing battle if I should do the operation at all. Yes I can't play sports that I used to love, yes I have to sleep on the floor , yes I have to walk and swim almost daily to keep things straight, Yes the fusion doctors are saying seeing you in a few years. However, I am not in constant pain like some, but I have to be careful and basically live my life revolving around my back, from the time I wake up to the time I go to sleep it is on my mind and try ot do everything to keep it from going.

When it does go completely like the other day it is pretty bad, barely can walk at first, lumber shift really bad but I would grin through the pain and walked for 2 hours straight which gets me back up to normal straightness, next morning again woke up twisted and in pain so once again walk walk walk.. today feeling better with minor twisting so two days of hell but now kind of back to normal, at least normal for me.

I got this feeling if I do the surgery I could make things a lot worse, I am not in the screaming in pain daily phase, but I know every year things are getting worse, specially with the legs, they are sooooo tight, even stretching every day they get tighter and tigher, my hamstrings are so tight that when i stretch them I have to bite the bullet and hold from screaming out and that isnt even overdoing it.

Anyway I feel seriously lost, not sure what to do, just tired. Thought I vent here, thanks guys

Hey was just like u I think work construction crushed discs 04 still worked finally in 16 I went to bogen Germany n I’m a year out and I been racing motocross last few months I feel like it’s a miracle no one in usa would operate on me for which I’m glad. I met a Bertagnoli amp in my opinion I got lucky. I’m pretty sure he I saw considered best in the world and he is cheap his prices were the lowest. Do your research cause once u make the wrong one it’s multiple operaration. But in bogen it’s a cash deal

You should ask yourself: if the rest of your life is going to be the same as it is now, is it an acceptable life? If you think it maybe is, then surgery is not needed. If you think it is not acceptable, then surgery should be considered. Delaying the choice is probably not going to make it any better. Yes, it is a gamble and you can lose it. However, your probability of success is not improving with waiting, so if you feel that surgery is the choice, I would go for it. If it is successful, your only regret will be that you did not have it sooner.

This is just my opinion, but I hope it helps :)

I hear what you are saying. I hate my back, it is terrible almost all the time and no I do not think I should be living like this. The only thing that has held me back is will doing the operation make things worse, I don't want to be worse because it really sucks now:)

I am sending my info here shortly again to Dr Desai and will update you on his thoughts, it will be nice to hear two opinions on my issues.

Thanks!

Something to think about: what direction is your back trending now? I understand your worry about surgery making it worse but if your condition is getting worse now, without surgery, the added risk of surgery might be less than you think.

I hear you, I sent off my info to Dr Desai on Dec 21st still waiting to hear back from him, being the holidays and all I am sure there was a delay.

Last week I started trying to sit more. I been avoiding sitting for last couple of years as much as possible but i wanted to see how bad things were from sitting. First couple of days I didnt have much problem but the third day on my back sitting really is terrible. I cant go more than 10 to 15 min without having to stand up and walk out the tightness and pain, the longer I sit the harder it is to get back out of the chair and walk it out.

So much tightness and kind of feels like my bones are grinding, just this constant pain in the middle lower back and often to the side.. obvious what it is haha but i spent last couple years not sitting I have forgotten the issues it causes me.

Mornings are still the worse, often wake up with my body slanted to the side still and go on a hour walk and swim for 45 min laps to break it out, I kind of have to do this these days, the walk and swim that is. Funny when people that dont have bad backs see you and say "hey I thought you said you had a bad back why are you walking, swimming? " They look even more puzzled when I tell them it is actually bad for me to not be moving, the more i sit around the worse.. as well

Waiting for Dr Desai, I really like this lp-esp disc,not so much because it has less failures documented, I like how it only has very small pins that push into the bone but has that special bonding liquid that bonds to the bone and not aggressive discs that could damage bone.. forgive me for not having the medical terms off hand.

Hi Dorian,
I send files to Desai 14 December, so i was first you have to wait;p hehe, Tamara Replay me 21-st that from the first views, i am a good candidate for the operation. Dr. Desai will contact after Christmas. I have similar afflictions and dilemmas like you. Maybe we meet in Cologne :beer:
Good luck

Haha maybe, be nice to not do this solo, I could drag GF or family member to Germany but not sure if I really want to do that, that is if germany is the place I end up going, havent given up on Spain just want some options

3 Level ADR candidate
 

dorian Hello read your post / story. I can identify. I read your statement
" I been in touch with Dr Clavel in Spain, he thinks I am a great candidate for three level ADR and I am seriously considering it. would be worse, perhaps it will be the best decision I ever made."
That is fantastic! You are NOT a member of the multi level fusion only club! From what I have read about Dr Clavel he is a man of integrity and supreme medical skills. You state Clavel thinks you are a GREAT candidate , not a "possible candidate" or "we will see candidate". If I heard that from him I would feel like I had just won the LOTTO.
As most of the Drs.told you "I will be a fusion candidate, but they all tell me it is coming." NOT NOW brother! Even if you get back 60 / 70 % of what you had before with ADR that would be life changing.
Did Clavel's office give you any price info?
I read your going to consult with Dr. Desai , heard good things about him as well. I say go for it and good luck on whom ever you chose. Please keep posting.

Hi Dorian. I am one month post op L3-L4 and L4-L5 with doctor Clavel.
My experience there was amazing.
If you need any more info just ask me :-)

Thanks for your thoughts, and yes I got a price from Clavel's office its about 35 000 Euros for 3 levels which includes 5 nights in the hospital , insurance, medicines, tests etc etc

I got in touch with Dr Desai office today seems my information is still in transit, I am hoping it will arrive in germany any day now. I am getting Dr Desai's thoughts not because I don't think Clavel is a great doctor, just want to hear two points of view so i can make a final decision

I will take you up on that and be in touch soon

2 Level / Clavel
 

perepere8 If I may ask;
How long were you required to stay in Spain after your surgery?
L-5 S-1 OK uh?
What type of disc was used?
Price range for a 2 level @ Clavels?
Experiencing any distention pain?
Good luck with your new back ;) , Thanks for the posting.

Yes Perepere if you could share your story some where that be great
Problems before hand
operations you had in the past if any
Disc used I am presume it was m6 since that is his preferred Disc
Time in Spain
Post operation pain, how long it took to feel better, uphill battles etc

anything you can share would be just fantastic

well my information, MRI etc finally arrived in Germany. Took over a month to get there regular mail, was told 10 days haha ah well at least they are there. Tamara tells me that Dr Desai is in congress meetings till next wednesday and then will take a look and get back to me.

Well I got my first email from Dr Desai, he mentions that with any operation it could turn into fusion or hybrid, not sure if he is just covering his basis in case something goes wrong, Clavel never mentioned Fusion at all.. Anyway I can ask the doctor questions which I plan to do this weekend, going to get a list of questions written up that I been told he will answer.
Here is the email

Thanks for the MRI, which I have read carefully.

With the medical history you have and the images, I see a way to supply the segments L3-S1 with an LP-ESP disc prosthesis.
A new MRI hast o be done before operation.

An introduction here can be arranged at any time with my secretary.
We will prepare a quote and send it to you. The stay after surgery is about 5-7 days in the hospital and then you should be another 5 days here in a nearby hotel, so we can see each other until the thread is removed. The physio will then be here in the house.

Whenever we plan and clear up an operation, I always have to mention that it can end in fusion - just in case two vertebral bodies are not properly separated or there are indications during the operation that guide us. It could also end up with a hybrid solution, L5/S1 fusion (Cage) and L3/4 and L4/5 LP-ESP.

If there are any questions, don´t hesitate!


Best regards,

Talked To Dr Desai about the fusion. He basically said he is required to say that before he does any operation, probably procedure. He then went on to tell me his main goal is to always give ADR and though he says Fusion is a possibility to all his patients before the operation, 95% of them he does ADR

Just an update from me.
I have talked to both Dr Clavel and Dr Desai, they seem to be my final two choices right now.

I decided since I had another rougher year to get another MRI here in Asia, just got it this week. The Asian doctor (fusion doc) says not much has changed from last year though he just scanned the two MRI pretty quickly, didnt seem very thorough. Still says not ready for fusion at this point and though he is not an ADR doctor says it could help. In any case his opinion isnt too important to me, just needed to get the MRI

This year has been harder. Every morning wake up with a feeling I am going to snap in two. Daily 5 km walk and 45 min swim in the morning to loosen me up seems good, but must admit gets tiring to have to do this every single day, exercise is fine but damn gets tiring, if I take a break I got a 50% chance the back will blow the first day and a 75% chance if I wait two days.

Also last couple months have developed a dull ache in the middle of my back that never seems to go away, I can feel it more when i lie on my back as well. Legs have also started to get more aches, never had a lot of leg pain but these days they get tired fast and ache more. I have also noticed from time to time some of my toes are getting numb and thumbs as well, probably associated. I do know if I lay on my back to fast like drop down on it that ache in my back has a bit of a pain spasm and my big toe will instantly feel like it is falling asleep

In any case nothing good has really changed and things in my opinion are getting worse and not better.

I am sending my latest MRI to both doctors, going to have one more session with each of them via skype, phone etc and make my final decision. I had conversations with both doctors in the past but I would consider myself a rookie at the time and I have a lot more questions after I have researched things more.

I am still torn between LP ESP Disc which I personally like wiht Dr Desai or the M6 disc with Clavel. I think it will come down to this last session on which doctor I will go with.
As always love to hear any experiences with both doctors, especially lumber operations, I got three to replace the ones in my sig, the L5-S1 seems to be the worst you can barely see it on the MRI these days, l4-l5 and l3-l4 can be see but quite dark and flat, ones above it look great nice and white and healthy looking