New here, not new to back pain

[Corry]

Ok, so a warning, I'm wordy. On the phone, on the internet, in person....I'm wordy Its a bad habit, and I always figure I need to provide enough information to request a good response. That said, I realize I myself included, don't always read everything posted in a thread on message boards.

So I guess I'll get right to the point? I'm wondering if anyone here has had experience with The Virginia Spine Institue? I'm currently going there, and I think they are reputable, and all. Heck, they were on the cover of some major US medical journal (though I don't remember which one). They participated in the Maverick study.
I'm a patient of Dr Subach. Trouble is, he pretty much sucks at communication. I think this might be for good reason, like insurance, and not wanting to reccomend a non-FDA approved device, etc. Still it has me a bit worried. I'm not entirely sure whats going on in there. I came to the realization long ago I was going to need surgery. I won't say the sooner the better, but I won't say waiting forever is an option either.
The first time I saw him, he mentioned ADR, and a few things I won't repeat, just in case he wasn't supposed to mention it. I say this, because the last time I saw him, he was fusion this and fusion that, fusion fusion fusion, which led me to frustration frustration, frustration!
Why Dr Subach, and the Maverick? Well, I'm not dead set on either. I started researching when I found out what my problem was. The maverick was new then and by all internet accounts, was the most promising of the charite, prodisc, and maverick. I can still find tons of information saying the same thing. I have since learned there are other disks out there (which I will be reading about on here after getting this intro out of the way). One I saw on here called the kineflex? I suppose I could travel for the doctor if there isn't a good one local. Heck, I've been putting off moving to stay close to VSI, if I decided to go elsewhere, I could just move to a place with a lower cost of living

The way I see it though, my back is degenerating. I'm in the middle of a flare up right now, trying to enjoy my labor day weekend...so far it hasn't been too bad, but I think thats a lot of will power I'm going to try to get scheduled for an injection soon. However, this time, I wasn't foing anything my physical therapist said I couldn't do. He seemed puzzled. I just don't see my back lasting much longer. I don't want this flare up pain ever becoming permenant, as I know many on here have experienced. I'd like to get this "fixed" before that time.

So I'm looking for options. Everything I have read about the maverick has made sense from an engineers point of view. However, I still only know what the mythical "they" tell me. However, going on that, it seems like a really good option, especiall given that I'm probably going to put whatever I get through ADR hell. I'm 27. I want to get back into sports, no football, but soccer, frisbee, and maybe, maybe Ice Hockey (no big leagues, so no checking....it would be bad for the other guys if I checked ) I'd also like to get a little weight lifting in. Nothing huge, really just toning excercises. No sense in being able to lift 500Lbs or so if the back can't take it as I learned back in 2001. By everything I have read thus far, the Maverick seems to be the most able to take abuse, last, and be mechanically similar to the spine.

I'm not naive though. I first started using the internet in 1994, (kinda like saying I wasn't born yesterday in internet terms ) I know there is a lot of trash online. I know people skew numbers, "facts", etc to serve their interests (usually financial interests). When it comes to computers, cars, electronics, etc, I can pick out the good from the bad. I've been at it for a while, and since a young age, been burned, and come out on top. In the medical field, I can't draw on that kind of past experience, so I'm less likely to trust what I read. So I'm not "drinking the kool-aid" so to speak, and if I am convinced through lots of reasearch, etc, that there is a better solution (doctor, device, both) I'll switch. I guess that was a wordy way of saying I'm open minded

I plan on doing a lot of searching of these forums. I'm sure some of these questions get asked a lot, and here, because of the screening, I think we're less likely to see mal-intentional skew (Is that even a phrase?) In other words, I think no financial motives will be driving whats posted. People are going to have their biases, but I think it will be based on personal experience, and individual research

Hopefully I'll get some help here, and hopefully I can be of help to others. I look forward to participating more on this site.

[Terry]

Hi Corry:

I am a fellow wordy person. We probably bore the **** out of people from time to time. My Board President asked me a couple of months ago if I knew what the word; "Brevity" meant. I said yes and, he asked; "Do you ever practice it?" This was right before a speech I was supposed to give so, I discarded the speech and, kept my comments down to less than 5 minutes. He gave me the thumbs up sign so that was very good. It's hard for wordy people to be not wordy.

That said, welcome to the forum though, not in the circumstances you are presenting in. I know the feeling of doing more than the body is supposed to be able to handle. Tried to lift an engine by yourself? You're still too young to be experiencing the level of surgery that you need. That said, it does not sound like you have many choices either as you sound like you have advanced DDD for a young man.

I ruptured all through my twenties until my last one in 1995 when I was 38 years old. That was 4 total ruptures and, led to my first spinal surgery. I also liked the Maverick disc and had some mild facet issues so I was a good candidate for this surgery. I had 4 level ADR surgery; 2 cervical (Prestige); 2 lumbar (Maverick). I am one year ten months out of my surgery and am doing fabulous. I also liked the center of rotation for the disc and, believed it put less stress on the spine. My recovery has been a roller coaster ride though has stabilized in the last couple of months. I tell people flat out that it has taken all of twenty months to start feeling like I could kick Superman's ***.

Do some more research though as you want to go with something that is going to last you a good many years. You are still very young. Ask away as there are many here that have been there before.

Again, Welcome.

Terry Newton

[Corry]

some more research though as you want to go with something that is going to last you a good many years. You are still very young. Ask away as there are many here that have been there before.

Again, Welcome.

Terry Newton

Wohoo! Normally I'm the only wordy person on whatever forums I get on lol. Yeah, bores people

I actually stayed up till 3:00 am the night I got access to the forums. I looked up the kineflex, activ-l, dor-something rather, metal on metal issues, etc. Its a lot to absorb. I still think I like the maverick best, but still have concerns about doctors. Unfortunatly, I'm young. I might be a software engineer for a large defense contractor, but that doesn't mean I make the $$$ to fork out a trip to Stenum. So experienced doctors are going to be hard to come by.
Unfortunatly, I think I have put this thing off for as long as I possibly can. The flare ups are becoming more frequent, and much worse. I can't believe I'm back on Vicodin (Hopefully tomorrow I'l get a needle....not that I like needles...not at all, but I do like the effects )

I had hoped to have some sort of surgery before the end of the year, like at least a few months before the end of the year, as my family is planning on heading to Egypt right before christmas, and I want to go. Looks like the advisory commitee isn't meeting till mid november, and then the topic hasn't been posted. (You can bet if its for the Maverick, I'm going to go watch, since I live nice and close ) So I guess nothing is going to happen until next year for me...hopefully I won't have a flare up in Cairo....not sure how easy it is to get a cortisone injection there is

Anyways, I'm still liking the maverick given the options I have. I think it still looks stronger than the kineflex, and I'm going to risk the metal on metal design. It didn't seem to effect everyone, and was reversible, so the body seems to recover, seems then there is probably something that will come out to help the body recover w/o removal. At least, thats what I guess I'll be banking on. For me, I really thing the number one thing I have to look at in these devices is strength of the device. I'm still single, so I havent had kids. I want to be able to hold them, toss the baby in the air (and catch them of course, they seem to love those gravity experiments while they are young ), run, play football, wrestle, etc. So I still think the engineers KISS methodology is the best...for those who don't know KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid....which is a philosophy that competes and rarely wins againse the Some is good, more is better, and Too much is enough theory The less things to go wrong with the device, I think is going to end up giving me the best results (assuming correct installation). I am still open to listening to what others have to say. I'm no expert, and I can only go by what I can reason out. Doesn't mean I catch everything Even in software I write, there are occasionally bugs, so even in my field, I don't catch everything.

I'd still like to know about people's experiences with The Virginia Spine Institute in Reston, VA, especially anyone who was part of the maverick clinical trial there. I'd be curious to know how the surgery went, what the outcome has been so far, how they treated you, etc. I realize its all just an opinion, and I'm not going to hold anyone to anything. I can say Dr. Subach has quite an ego, but hearing that most of them do helps me feel a little better

[Corry]

I hate research....I pulled out my old MRI's to get a look at the radiologists report....trouble at T11-T12, and T12-L1. Nothing severe in july 2002 when I had those MRIs, but then there was nothing severe with my L3-L4, or L4-L5 back then either...worse, the new MRI shows the T12-L1. I'd say it doesn't look that great, but they didn't get a detailed look at it this time. My doctor didn't mention it either...Guess I have something to look forward to talking with him about.

A quick google search for ADR and thoracic doesn't turn up much usefull.

Normally I can laugh at all this. I should have just gone to bed 3 hours ago. Now the vicadin has worn off...

Anyone got any good news?

I guess on the bright side, I can get my lumbar fixed...not much cheering up there...

[annapurna]

Given that the thoracic is fixed in place by ribs, no one's really given any thought to ADR for those levels. Fusion should work well for those levels. Was that good news?

[Corry]

Actually yes. I also did some more reading which showed thoracic herniations are rare, and even more rare to be symtomatic...so they can probably just be left alone unless they cause problems. Then what you said about fusion makes it better. Still not happy about it though...

I remember in biology class they said spines were a big seperator between higher and lower forms of life. Well, I say that spines are highly overrated!

[KBear]

I'm gonna chime in as another wordy member, I tend to overexplain things. Probably doesn't surprise anyone that I'm a talker too
Have the injections worked for you? I have had numerous and they never work for me. My husband has them for and L4/5 herniation and walks out like a new man, I'm so jealous of him!
I am assuming by what I read, that you are not in chronic pain, just intermittent? Just curious, what is your pain scale number? I stay at a 8 or 9, without drugs. Thank God for opiates! I laughed my butt off on your post about it being 3am and the vicodin wearing off. I too have done that many of sleepless nights, take my vicodin to go to sleep, get engrossed in something, 3 hours later I am awake and once again in pain. I am now on time released morphine with vicodin for breakthrough pain, but still dying of pain. I have to learn that I am not supermom and can not do it all, have it all and still feel great (at least not until my ADR
On the thoracic disc, I asked my dr. about doing a new mri of my t spine, when I had my most recent lumbar mri, and he told me that it didn't really matter if something was wrong because it either does not cause pain or fusion, adr is not an option. I am fortunate to only have one DDD disc, so I can't fathom having more. I was wondering how many young sufferers were out there and now I see that there is at least one more, I never see people my age at the dr's offices and do not know anyone my age with issues like myself.

[Corry]

Well, up until this last injection they always took the pain right away. Yes my pain used to be intermittent thanks to the injections. This time though, at least round 1, has failed. I'm still holding out hope the steroid is just slow to react this time...but I got my vicodin refilled this morning (thank goodness for that, w/o it sitting for extended periods of time is quite painfull, vicodin takes the edge off it )

Prior to this last big flare up, I'd often have no pain and it would spike to maybe a 2-3, even as high as a 4. My back sorta saying, "Hey! I'm still here, and I'm still injured!".

So I guess here is my official condition update. The injection, as mentioned didnt seem to do much. For the period the numbing agent was in effect, I was great! Could have played some sports Once it wore off there was pain, but much less then before the injection. Slowly though, the pain has built its way back up to about pre-injection levels, and its pretty constant now. No fun. This is getting into that situation I was hoping to avoid. I'm also getting a light tingling in my right toes, and some pain/strange sensations in both my legs, though, more on the right.

Hopefully a miracle will happen and the FDA will announce that they will meet to discuss the fate of the maverick in a week. *sigh* and maybe my spine will spontaniously regenerate! I think there's about a roughly equal chance btw those 2 I have written both my senators, and my representative, and the FDA. I doubt it will do much, but I had to do something.

[Terry]

Corry:

Don't bother those poor Senators. They're busy paying themselves a big salary, getting a great pension program, having the best health care imaginable, etc. on your dime. Their surgeries are getting covered while you are fighting to get yours looked at. They are also busy trying to get some fellow snake elected and re-elected. Please don't disturb them now. They have more pressing concerns.

Hang in there.

Terry Newton

[KBear]

Originally posted by Terry:
Corry:

Don't bother those poor Senators. They're busy paying themselves a big salary, getting a great pension program, having the best health care imaginable, etc. on your dime. Their surgeries are getting covered while you are fighting to get yours looked at. They are also busy trying to get some fellow snake elected and re-elected. Please don't disturb them now. They have more pressing concerns.

Hang in there.

Terry Newton

Love it! Sad, but true.