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  #11  
Old 04-08-2011, 08:13 PM
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Harrison Harrison is offline
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If it is likely you have mild facet arthrosis, you are taking a risk. If you have advanced arthrosis, it is a contraindication. Please read AnnaPurna's thoughtful post. And Hooch's giving you some specific direction -- don't be lazy!

OK, I gave it to you.

My obvious disclaimer: these are questions you should be directing to surgeons. You may find different answers among them, even with these basic questions. This is often a problem. We are here as patients to support you, but cannot provide any medical advice -- which is where this topic is heading.
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"Harrison" - info (at) adrsupport.org
Fell on my ***winter 2003, Canceled fusion April 6 2004
Reborn June 25th, 2004, L5-S1 ADR Charite in Boston
Founder & moderator of ADRSupport - 2004
Founder Arthroplasty Patient Foundation a 501(c)(3) - 2006
Creator & producer, Why Am I Still Sick? - 2012
Donate www.arthropatient.org/about/donate
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  #12  
Old 04-09-2011, 12:41 PM
jasonwidup jasonwidup is offline
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Thanks Harrison - I totally understand this is all discussion and not medical advice. I'm just looking for people to share their experience and what they know.

I thought I would add in details from my last x-ray and CT reports where they discuss facets. Here is what they say based on an x-ray: "Mild sclerotic facet changes at L4-5 and L5-S1 levels are present." Based on what you say Harrison, this automatically puts me at risk but may not contraindicate me.

I think I'm going to try to get a few more doctors to weigh in on these images.

Thanks!
__________________
Low back pain most my life
3/2007 - Injured playing with my daughter
10/2007 - L5/S1 diskectomy/laminectomy
1/2008 - herniated opposite side of L5/S1
3/2008 - L5/S1 diskectomy/laminectomy; L4/L5 laminectomy
2008-Today - injections, pain medicine, physical therapy, naturopathic meds, spine stimulator, traction - nothing works
Today - considering ADR surgery w/ Dr. Delamarter scheduled for 2/21/2011
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  #13  
Old 04-09-2011, 01:32 PM
annapurna annapurna is offline
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If I remember correctly schlerotic changes are more advanced signs of arthritis, reaction in the underlying bone rather than just inflammation or changes in the cartilage. I'd guess that means that this would be more than a mild risk but you'd need medical opinions about if it's an outright contraindication.
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Laura - L5S1 Charitee
C5/6 and 6/7 Prodisc C
Facet problems L4-S1
General joint hypermobility

Jim - C4/5, C5/6, L4/5 disk bulges and facet damage, L4/5 disk tears, currently using regenerative medicine to address

"There are many Annapurnas in the lives of men" Maurice Herzog
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  #14  
Old 04-09-2011, 05:04 PM
jasonwidup jasonwidup is offline
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Thanks. So for people like me what are my other options if not ADR? Is fusion it? Pain management or fusion assuming my facets are arthritic?
__________________
Low back pain most my life
3/2007 - Injured playing with my daughter
10/2007 - L5/S1 diskectomy/laminectomy
1/2008 - herniated opposite side of L5/S1
3/2008 - L5/S1 diskectomy/laminectomy; L4/L5 laminectomy
2008-Today - injections, pain medicine, physical therapy, naturopathic meds, spine stimulator, traction - nothing works
Today - considering ADR surgery w/ Dr. Delamarter scheduled for 2/21/2011
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  #15  
Old 04-09-2011, 08:42 PM
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Harrison Harrison is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,010
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Jason, how do you envision a solution? What else have you tried? If you are willing to try an alternative approach, check out the Gerson Therapy that has helped thousands of patients. It has successfully treated many cancers (not all types, but many), immune diseases and various arthritic conditions -- including spine pain.

Some people in this community have adopted parts of their program and have attained significant pain reduction in lower back pain. But most people here are in severe pain and are looking for a more immediate solution (like me in 2003-2004).

But for those that are willing to open their minds, study and adopt a natural approach, their bodies are healing. I know because I met and talked to these people who were healed with the GT. Before I even heard of Dr. Max Gerson I was already employing some of his therapies without realizing it...and getting better!

More information here:

Gerson Therapy - Alternative Cancer Treatment

I keep meaning to post information on this in the The Naturopathic Corner forum but I never find the time. Even if this therapy doesn't get you to the finish line, it will most definitely help your body heal and support your next steps towards wellness.

Note that some business references about the Gerson Therapy are harsh when it comes to alternative therapies. As to why detoxification and hyper-nutrition is a dangerous protocol, I cannot say why Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center calls this hazardous. Maybe patients trying to heal their bodies without chemicals is considered dangerous.

So, this is one of many non-surgical ways to help your body heal. Give it some thought.
__________________
"Harrison" - info (at) adrsupport.org
Fell on my ***winter 2003, Canceled fusion April 6 2004
Reborn June 25th, 2004, L5-S1 ADR Charite in Boston
Founder & moderator of ADRSupport - 2004
Founder Arthroplasty Patient Foundation a 501(c)(3) - 2006
Creator & producer, Why Am I Still Sick? - 2012
Donate www.arthropatient.org/about/donate
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  #16  
Old 04-10-2011, 04:45 AM
jasonwidup jasonwidup is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 16
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Thanks Harrison. Yes, I know about the Gerson method. My mother-in-law's husband had cancer and they did this very strictly. Unfortunately it didn't work in his case but that was cancer and this is not. Over the last few days I have stopped taking my pain medication to really get a sense for where I'm at - and it's not good. I'm worse than I thought because the current pain medicine I'm on is working well for now. However, I'm worried that it will stop working just like all the other medicines I've tried. I have tried facet joint injections (fail), intense physical therapy (fail), narcotic pain medicine (fail due to tolerance), anti-inflamatories (fail). With a disc that is as collapsed as mine I just am not sure there is anything non-surgical that will give me the kind of relief I am looking for. I am only 34 years old with two young children (9 and 5) and I need to be able to better participate. I can barely bend over to grab a baseball my son throws low. If I try anything other than sitting around it's temporary and I hurt. I want to be able to participate in an active lifestyle.
__________________
Low back pain most my life
3/2007 - Injured playing with my daughter
10/2007 - L5/S1 diskectomy/laminectomy
1/2008 - herniated opposite side of L5/S1
3/2008 - L5/S1 diskectomy/laminectomy; L4/L5 laminectomy
2008-Today - injections, pain medicine, physical therapy, naturopathic meds, spine stimulator, traction - nothing works
Today - considering ADR surgery w/ Dr. Delamarter scheduled for 2/21/2011
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  #17  
Old 04-10-2011, 01:48 PM
annapurna annapurna is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,668
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Rich knows far more about the non-surgical techniques than I do. Stem cell research is something Laura and I've investigated quite a bit for her knee problems. I doubt that it would help you because youre advanced enough to show schlerotic changes, far beyond the current state where stem cell work can add in repairing soft tissue and rewatering a dehydrated disk. Beyond that Rich will have to weigh in. One point to consider, though, is a mix of surgical and non-surgical. You might be able to "fix" the immediate problem with a surgical approach only to realize the rest of your system is messed up and requires non-surgical help to assist your recovery and get you back into shape.

Other than the surgical options we've discussed, there is ADR and facet replacement. This is being done but only a few docs, Brazil mostly if I remember correctly. It's real cutting edge stuff so the risks are huge. With that in mind, you really need to be clear on how you'd deal witha failed surgery before you attempt this route.
__________________
Laura - L5S1 Charitee
C5/6 and 6/7 Prodisc C
Facet problems L4-S1
General joint hypermobility

Jim - C4/5, C5/6, L4/5 disk bulges and facet damage, L4/5 disk tears, currently using regenerative medicine to address

"There are many Annapurnas in the lives of men" Maurice Herzog
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adr contraindications, autofusion, facet arthritis, facet arthrosis, gerson diet, gerson therapy, natural enzymes, surgery contraindications

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